Matthew Wrather hosts with Peter Fenzel, Josh McNeil, and David Shechner to overthink Game of Thrones (the TV series), A Game Of Thrones (the book), and what writers owe their readers.
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Everybody poops.
Spoiler alert!
I totally used Robert’s Rules in college student government. I used to have sections memorized, but I doubt I’d be able to do a soliloquy any more. I’d pick the DSM, though- it could be an ongoing series or one of those movie franchises that has maybe one or two in theaters and the rest direct-to-DVD because they’re so crap-tastic or obscure.
Oh, and speaking of weird Japanese videos to explain things, check out this one made to inform kids about the nuclear leaks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sakN2hSVxA
What I remember about 006 is how he came out of nowhere- none of the other movies ever referenced him, and yet he’s Bond’s most long-standing enemy or whatever? That was the only thing about Golden Eye I have to complain about, really. But I do like Sean Bean. A lot.
I LOVE DAVID EDDINGS, Fenzel, I have every single one of those books about Belgarian and all them people! SQUEE! I think I got into them as he was finishing them up, though, so I wasn’t waiting with bated breath for him to keep writing. Ah, nostalgia’s kickin’ in…
I sat here wracking my brain in search for a long-time-elapsed sequel that turned out, you know, not crappy, and… well… The best I can come up with is Die Hard With A Vengeance. (And I’m sure there are plenty of people that disagree with me about it being good, but I like that one more than the second one and think it’s better- and certainly more enjoyable and better than the fourth.) Is it just that difficult to make a high-quality sequel a long time after the original?
Sylvester Stallone must hold the secret formula to long-delayed sequels in a safe in his mansion. I don’t think anyone would argue that Rocky Balboa and Rambo are worse than Rocky 5 and Rambo 3. Unnecessary, perhaps, but worse? I think not (then again I hold the penultimate Rocky and Rambo films in very little regard). Maybe in 10 years The Expendables 2 will come out and be fantastic and even more about how old they all are.
Speaking of which, why is it that aging is always a theme that these movies explore? Is it to try and add some serious depth to John McClane or Indiana Jones, or is it just to justify the gap between movies?
Nah, I guess they aren’t any worse, but they certainly aren’t as good as or better than their precursors, with regards to the newest Stallone movies. I’d love to see Bruce Willis pust a cap with his own walker, though- this kind of needs to happen now.
I’d like to say they tackle age as a socio-political commentary on how the elderly are a marginalized group in society that is underrepresented in the decision-making bodies if this nation, and that geriatric politics is an underdeveloped branch of political theory and policy analysis…
But I think it’s just to account for the new wrinkles and the time gap.
but*
AAGH!!! BUST…
Die Hard 5 really ought to be about John McClane living with the aftermath of whatshisface erasing his 401K in Die Hard 4. “I’m too old for this shit, but I gotta job to do if I wanna get my pension back.”
It’s odd that that movie came out just a year before we had a complete financial meltdown. If they had just waited a year, I think more people would’ve been receptive to Bruce Willis saving the world from financial ruin.
You gotta wonder: did the writers know something we didn’t?
I’m going to disagree with Josh McNeil right off the bat with a couple of things on GOT. (real fans use abbreviations) I would say that the set scale is equal to Lord of the Rings, and that the books are waaaaaaaay smuttier than the show was, and has A LOT more nudity. Like, the scene where Cat receives the letter from her sister, in the book both her and Ned are naked.
In regards to the question of what an author owes to his/her audience, the answer has been most eloquently stated in song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6a1y1pc-GQ.
You know “I could have written a better episode 1” actually a line in J&B strike back
I actually like prequels
Here is Neil Gaiman’s perspective on the rate at which George R.R. Martin publishes.
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html
The Simpsons, actually, had a bit where Everybody Poops is adapted into a big-budget feature film starring Denis Leary as the Constipated Gorilla.
Viz: http://www.movieweb.com/tv/TEzljCABqZOxDE/everybody-poops
Aw, cyber hug, wrather. I’m sorry you had so many problems recording the podcast.
Yay! Well, I’m super happy that David Shechner has returned. Even if he isn’t. I am fairly sure you already talked about “Everybody Poops” and possibly a film about the movie. I don’t remember if you were talking about an actual movie or pitching the concept as a movie.
I think Meryl Streep narrated a video on evolution at the Museum of Natural History. I’m not sure if she made it better than it would have been otherwise but obviously I have no basis for comparison.
I am terrible at deadlines whether it’s for personal writing or writing I’m obligated to do. Essentially, for everything outside of school assignments. So despite the complaints I frequently get I’m going to say…no. Authors have no obligation, but then that’s why I avoid reading a series whenever possible. But I feel like you get two types of readers. The ones who feel like they’ll be gratified by getting something as soon as possible and those who are fine with you taking as much time as needed to be able to produce something that you are happy with that has organically arisen from a creative impulse and not the need to get something written.
Yay, Cat! To be clear, I’m always delighted to be on the podcast; my demeanor’s just the Lovable Curmudgeon person that I don so well. :)
Incidentally, today–some twelve hours after we recorded the podcast–in a fit of clarity the idea for a new live action/CGI animated (ala’ “Alan and the Chipmunks”) children’s movie hit me: “Dr. Proust’s ‘Swan’s Way.'”
I’ve omitted the extra “n” in Swann so as to put an animal in the title. Kids love animals.
If recent films have taught me anything, it’s that animal film titles should be as short as possible. “Hop” “Rio” If Mark Lee were around I’d ask him to graph length of title against total profit. But he isn’t so, oh well.
“Rango” and “Tangled”
I am around! Just in Korea, where the only thing really preventing me from joining the podcast is time zones. They do have the internets here; in fact, they have the *best* internets here.
Consider it asked. I’m on it. Look for it sometime in May, hopefully.
For this sleight, you shall face my revenge! In 3D!
(Not that I’m connected to the Swann in Swann’s Way, I think I just tend to remind people of him).
I think the concern wasn’t so much that he shouldn’t be allowed his creative time, but that he basically appears to have stopped working on the series entirely for several years. And these aren’t books that follow each other but are self-contained: they are steps in a giant epic, with dozens of characters in whom we are invested, with major and conflicting temporal groups and spiritual worlds, and with a supernatural background threat against the entire populace.
I feel like the complaints about his abandoning this project (and doing many others in the meantime) derive from the incredibly engrossing nature of the story(s) — with a depth and complexity unlike anything else I can remember reading — and also the feeling of investment in a host of characters whose fates are up in the air. There are so many threads to the story that one cannot help but think he has a map of where he is going, but it’s very hard for the reader to guess (especially given his willingness to kill off major players, change your view of others, etc.), so essentially it feels like we’ve been hooked (! !!) and left hanging.
I fear that in fact he hadn’t completely mapped it out — or had several possible routes and doesn’t want to choose. I imagine that he’s even more invested in the characters than we are, and only a couple of them can win the ultimate game…
oh yeah — and the series has been described as comprising 7 books, of which only 4 exist. which is a lot of epic left in a desk drawer!
This is all I feel that I need to know about Atlas Shrugged (the movie).
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110414/REVIEWS/110419990
http://my.spill.com/profiles/blogs/atlas-shrugged-audio-review
To which I would add this hilarious one:
http://www.ginandtacos.com/2011/04/17/battlefield-train-an-atlas-shrugged-movie-review/
I have often had discussions on what artists (musicians, authors, etc.) owe their fans and the bare bones simple answer is absolutely nothing. They create content and the public either consumes it or doesn’t. Sometimes artists are criticized for submitting to fan pressure. Michael Chrichton revived dead characters killed in the novel Jurassic Park that weren’t killed in the movie in order to include them in the sequel (and therefore the movie sequel). Admittedly that pressure was probably more from the movie studio than the fans, but it is still an artist changing the nature of his product in order to produce more content.
I recently read a fascinating discussion on author’s responses to fan fiction. I had always assumed authors either enjoyed fan fiction at best, tolerated it at worst. I was dead wrong, as it seems there are authors that are vehemently against fan fiction. There is a rant (and response) on it at swiftywriting.blogspot.com/2005/11/in-defense-of-fanfiction-guestblogger.html. It is several years old so not sure where the debate has gone since then.
If I had to guess, I’d say “ice” and “fire” in the title are referring to the Starks and Targaryens respectively, who are pretty strongly identified with those elements. There are more Starks prominent in the story, since the only Targaryen is Daenerys (in the present time of the books, anyway), so that could be why ice comes first. It’s probably just to make it sound archaic, but that could be the retroactive explanation.
I would argue that He’s Just Not That into You is (if a thing can transcend the paradox and embrace the “probably”) a movie definitely worthy of overthinking. Either way, it’s at least a step above the standard fare for american-made romantic comedies, Bradley Cooper films, or ensemble dramas set in Baltimore.
I was going to suggest that my own first novel would be an absurd movie, lacking a central character, a through-running plot, a consistent tone or genre… maybe carry on with the Ayn Rand and do The Fountainhead, which worked okay as a book, since it serves as proof of how much you should take her seriously, but probably wouldn’t on TV. Maybe.
Or perhaps the Nietzsche I’m reading right now – We Philologists, a long rant about classics teachers of a very specific time in Germany. There’s a reason it’s not more famous.
Appropriately, my safe word IS Kierkegaard.
And finally, if it even needed to be said, one man’s logical fallacy is the next man’s rhetorical device!
My classic example of a frustratingly unfinished series is David Gerrold’s allegedly seven part “War Against the Chtorr.” The first book was published in 1983. The story is a truly epic tale of our ecology being invaded and suborned by much more highly competitive alien critters, who gradually take over the entire world’s ecosystem, leaving no room for native species, including us. By the end of the fourth book, it’s hard to see HOW humanity possibly survives, which is exciting. You’re on the edge of your seat to see what happens next.
It was published in 1993. Gerrold’s web page swears he’s still working on it. But it’s hard to see how he finishes three more books in the series before dying of old age. (He’s 67 now)